So to start this off, I just want everyone to know I have signed up on 99designs. But! I have never entered any contest or been part of any of these types of sites. Mainly because I like to research before I just jump into something. So here is what I came up with after reading the mass confusion people have spattered all over the internet about 99designs.
I am sure there are a lot of people who have heard of websites like “SitePoint”, “99designs” and “eLance”. There seems to be a pretty big controversy with these sites. Something about how they ruin the whole design world and are putting people out of business. Just like anything on the internet, you can find lot’s of positive and negative information on a company or subject.
I will go into the pro’s and con’s of these sites in a minute but to sum my opinion up, I think the complainers that are voicing their complaints all over the internet are just old school designers that are sour that they did not foresee this coming and are not willing to change with the tide.
So what are some of the normal complaint’s you can hear about these types of websites?
Well there is a blog/portfolio called “graphicpush.com” that seems to have raised lots of hell about 99designs. The owner has also seemed to rally up the troops to have a giant free for all flame fest (ffaff – an acronym I created, feel free to use it lol). What I was able to decipher from the ffaff (there it is again) out of this site and other similar sites comes down to this:
• Designers, who make a living in design, are getting their throats cut because of young designers doing work much cheaper.
• “Pro” designers believe that to have a successful project, you have to have tons of communication, and invest hours upon hours into the project.
• It is assumed by the same people, that the final work done will be some “shitty” design, for close-to-nothing pay and everyone else involved gets screwed.
Well, before I go on let’s run through my opinion of the pro’s and con’s. But to help put this into perspective…how many “professional”, long-term career designers already established in their field do you think participate in these types of sites/contests? To me that is the biggest point that needs to be considered when looking at all the ffaff.
These sites allow a client to come and set up a “contest” where designers can bid on the project by creating a design and entering the contest. The client picks a winner; there is a transfer of money and product. Done. Keep in mind there is only one winner, so is everyone else losers? Depends how you look at it. Remember my point above. Designers who enter these types of sites are not established designers. They are young aspiring designers who are entering these contests for a few reasons that include: extra money, experience, portfolio building and practice.
In saying that, does that mean that the winning design will be some half-assed design not worth a dime? No. Anyone involved in the design community online can see the talent in young people today. With the internet came the opportunity to learn. How often do you look at some professionally designed website, product or advertisement and think to yourself “that is a piece of crap, I could have done better then that”? That is because the rate us young people are learning is amazing. We are more experienced with the online environment, more proficient with computers and probably the programs we use…then most career designers. So, I would bet money that a professional designer who comes in and wants to drink coffee and talk about the direction of a company, their aspirations, how they feel, etc. would not have a chance in these contests like 99designs holds. Us “kids” today have experience with hearing the basics of what the design needs to be and making it happen…because of instead of spending hours at Starbucks with the client talking about saving the ozone layer, we are on our computers with Photoshop open practicing almost non-stop. So does anyone really think that the winning work in these contests is garbage work? Especially with the amount of people who enter? And the people who did not win, now tried out a new design and have something to add to their portfolio.
What it really comes down to is marketing. You do not have to be the best designer ever to make money. You just have to get your name out there and market yourself. Doing little projects for people, winning contests, portfolios, blogs, graphic accounts like deviantArt and others, word of mouth, emails and cold calling…this is all part of marketing yourself. Make someone happy with the work you did for them and they will pass your name along and most likely consider you for their next project. So are these contest sites the source of all evil that many make them out to be? No way, no how. They are a tool to use for any motivated young designer.
Granted here are some of the downfalls I see in these types of sites. For one, there is always the possibility of a scam. Meaning you design the work and the client does not pay you. Now you did the work that you can add to your portfolio but you don’t get paid. Or, the client now sees all the entries for their project and instead they steal your ideas you came up with and do it themselves. (Though I do not see why someone would go through that trouble to get an idea when they can just surf the net or look at template sites like monstertemplates.com) The biggest thing I do not like about these contest is the copyright transfer. The only option a designer has is to give all rights to the customer. Meaning, if you did a design for a product or a logo and instead of receiving a percentage of the sales, you get a one-time payment.
There are some things these sites can do to fix these issues though. For instance, making the client pay the hosting site upfront, to make sure the winner gets paid. Or creating variations of how one is paid along with variations of copyright ownership.
So to end this article, I think these types of sites are a great opportunity for young designers to learn, build portfolios and earn some extra money while doing so. I also think this is the wave of the future. Everyone who is upset with these sites have two options; catch up with the pace, or fall out. Plain. And. Simple.
Now after reading all of this, do not get me wrong. This does not mean I 100% support spec work…because I do not. If you are a designer who has a list of clients and a steady workflow coming in, then obviously you do not need to participate in contests such as these. I see the beast for what it is, but I do not think it is entirely bad. I think it is a perfect tool for young designers to get in the playing field. It gives them the confidence and experience to move further into the design world. I do not think these types of sites are seriously hurting career designers because they already have a client list. They already have their name out there. Just because you took a specific route to get to where you are, does not make other routes wrong. So because I may be a tiny bit harsh on the pros in this article, I do understand their point of view. But the last thing I have to say in this article is that everyone has their place in the design world. Pro’s have there target customers, beginning designers have theirs. There is plenty to go around and in a digital and product driven world, there are plenty of designs that need to be created. Have fun all.
Oh, and I think I am going to participate in some contests to see how it goes. Should be fun and good practice.
August 28th, 2008 at 7:54 am
Awesome article
August 28th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
Thanks for the great article, ReBeL.
It’s refreshing to read a well thought out and balanced view on the controversial topic from a designers point of view.
Best of luck in the contests!
August 30th, 2008 at 9:06 am
No problem and thanks for stopping by and taking the time to comment. I think the biggest thing to consider in this topic is keeping an open mind and realizing that this is another tool for designers to use…rather then see something new as a threat. Nothing wrong with change.
September 26th, 2008 at 5:01 am
Great article, have been thinking about this for quite a while and decided to join 99designs after I’ve read this. You really did a great job at balancing the view, and personally the balance scale dropped towards joining, so again, great article.
September 29th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Thank you. I read a lot up on this from many perspectives and understand both sides but I feel it is not the evil it is spoken to be by some. I tried to leave it pretty balanced so people have enough information to make their own decision.
Once you sign up and try it out, come back and let me know what you think of it, I would be interested to hear.
October 18th, 2008 at 8:06 am
This is an interesting article, your a very good writer,keep it up.
October 22nd, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Thank you. Glad you liked it
November 2nd, 2008 at 7:33 pm
I’m a seasoned designer (some might say too seasoned). I am pretty vocal about being against these sites. I discovered 99Designs late last week when a potential client approached me requesting I reproduce a design that was submitted in his contest. He had no intention of ever paying for it, he said he just used 99Designs to get ideas. I took a pass.
I did check the place out and signed up. I was bored to tears on Saturday and went into a few contests. It took me about 3 or 4 hours, I’d say. At this moment I am on top (according to the ratings)for the ones that have been rated.I have been contacted by vendors asking questions and submitted one revision. At this point, if I get the jobs, I stand to make about $1,200. Now, I might not win, I might not get paid…who knows, but here are a few observations:
1. It’s actually easy pickins if you’ve been doing something for years and years, so that what takes a novice 3 or 4 hours, takes you only 40 minutes. And, I sound knowledgeable when talking with the vendors, so I’m sure that’s a bonus. That’s assuming they’re reputable contests and not being held by people like the potential client that I mentioned earlier.
2. The “smart” way to handle it (which I didn’t do) is to wait until near the end. As the contest progresses, the vendor usually rates the designs. Just find the top rated design and improve upon it. To be honest, it’s not that difficult, if you’re good. I discovered this the hard way when one of my designs was given a perfect score and about 10 minutes later it’s near clone appeared as a submission from another designer.
3. Taste is often in the feet. I was blown out of the water by one designer (young, too talented) and the client gave his submission a 1/5. Totally missed the most awesome design. The same vendor was rating the most cliche and ordinary of works very high (mine included, because I could see where he was heading with his “innovative and professional” description a.k.a., “make it black and silver, with lots of gradients”). That was sort of painful.
It was fun.
Think I’ll keep my day job, though.
November 3rd, 2008 at 8:57 am
You do bring up some good points. But just to play devils advocate I am going to bring up some other points.
“I discovered 99Designs late last week when a potential client approached me requesting I reproduce a design that was submitted in his contest. He had no intention of ever paying for it, he said he just used 99Designs to get ideas. I took a pass.”
Good on you and bad on him. Granted I am sure this happens and maybe it happens often. On the other hand, that client is an idiot for doing that. I say that because why pay the money to open a contest, just to get ideas when you can go to any of the numerous other template sites like template monster or someone else to get ideas on how you want your site? Waste of funding and time and their company site will end-up failing because obviously they do not know much about the web if they are paying money to get ideas and then pay someone else to implement it.
Like I said, I am sure it happens and it sucks for the designer but that client does not know squat and will most likely fail anyway. What goes around comes around and if it only takes 40 minutes to a couple hours what are you really out? A little bit of time? This would be bad if you needed the time on another client but if you’re in the contest you’re most likely between projects anyway killing time. On a good note, you get higly rated on 99 designs for the cheapskate client liking the template…it adds a highly rated and winning item to your profile/portfolio on 99 designs and will help in the future on 99 designs.
Just my opinion.
“At this point, if I get the jobs, I stand to make about $1,200. Now, I might not win, I might not get paid…who knows…”
Say you win all of them, but you only get half the money…$600 because the rest backed out like chumps. $600 bucks for 2-3 hours of work while you were bored is still nice.
For your observations, great points. I think that would be helpful to people entering in the contests. Nice game plan waiting to enter so you have a better understanding of what is wanted by the client. And I agree on point 3…I been through this many times…some people just do not have a clue what is a nice design…some people have an idea to open a site and want animated gifs and fire everywhere with neon sludge for borders…but all in all, if they are paying your bills for something mediocre that is not time consuming then sweet. Just don’t put your name on it! lol
November 4th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Hello, it’s me again. Thought I’d write an update. None of the contests I entered have yet gone through all the finalized stages (think I was misreading the time left column, although in the light of day, I’m not sure how).
First, I should clarify that mine is print work of a one-page nature (think CD cover design). I might also confess that for my day job, I provide several proofs to clients, and they only choose one. This means I have a lot of design work sitting here waiting to be revamped for another client (if at all possible). So, making a few alterations to accommodate these contests, if I wanted to do so on a regular basis, probably wouldn’t be that difficult. For that reason, I plan to keep an eye out on 99Designs and won’t rule out submitting in the future.
As of right now, I am still waiting on the first vendor for a small project to make his final decision, but see there are now 2 copycat designs. One is really close and one is pretty much the same with an iStock image replacing my image. I have no control over this, and they could very well get the prize. He asked me to do another proof, (I’d already done a revised) and I said I could do that if I won the contest (time to bail out. Week is in full swing, I’m busy). The other designs are going to pose issues on printing though, and I gently gave him some pointers on things, but didn’t really want to seem as if I was knocking anyone’s skill. Maybe they know something I don’t and at the end of the day — I still have a day job.
A second, more lucrative vendor also asked for a revised. I withdrew the image. Rather than have it sitting there for the stealing, I believe I can sell it for far more money in my day job, eventually. If it wasn’t for the copying, I would have been tempted, it’s close to Christmas, I have children and $400 or $500 would come in handy, but the fact all these images are there means their shelf-life is over because anyone can take your idea. If I lose the competition, I’ve lost a lot more if I take that into consideration. I would have done the changes and finished the project if he guaranteed payment, but I’m just too iffy about the idea stealing. it’s really prevalent on there.
Another vendor also wrote. He scored me a 3/5, but said he like my idea best (?). He too asked for some changes, but I withdrew the image. A 3/5 wasn’t staying on my portfolio. LOL He wrote back again, so I took another look at what had been submitted in the last day or so and several had 5/5. One should win (it might have been a 4/5), but one of the 5/5s had to be one of the worst examples of layout and design I’ve seen in my entire life. It would unsell the product. I mentioned taste being in some people’s feet, right?
At this point, my pride and fear of having my ideas taken is outweighing any $$ gain I might end up with.
However, even if I only win 1 of the competitions, I still would have made $40 or $50 an hour, when I would have otherwise been watching TV.
I just wonder how much I’ve lost with other people stealing my designs.
November 4th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
First let me just say I am glad you are back and giving us a brief of your experience at 99 designs.
You bring up a lot of great points about this that I think would help people if they desire to participate in these type of contests. Obviously you can not just go in and do work and expect to win as learned from your comments. There needs to be strategies in place. You have to be prepared to pull out of a contest when needed and know when. It seems you also have to be prepared to talk to the client in a professional and educated way to earn you “brownie points”. But at the same time, know how to read people so you do not get ripped off…art or money wise.
I mean it is not a perfect system. I did read a little while back how they were going to implement a middle man and make the client pay the money up front and 99 Designs would then transfer the funds to the winner chosen. This would be great to keep people from ripping you off but you would still have to put up with people revamping your great work…but at least then that takes one of the negatives out of the picture.
But as you said…the biggest thing that out weighs everything in my opinion is you might have made $50 an hour when otherwise you would have been watching TV. Not only that, you continue to sharpen your skills and build on your portfolio.
Thanks for coming by again and I hope you keep coming back with updates. I’m sure the readers are loving to hear about it.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:11 am
Pretty interesting stuff, and I really like Anonymous’ take on this, but I thought that I should give my point of view on, since we’ve seen what a professional designer has to say about this, here is what I, a novice, experienced there.
Okay first of all I don’t consider myself a novice meaning someone who has never done this before, I just need more experience to see what people want from the short post they make. On the other hand I know how to talk to them and I know what would be good for their request marketing wise or in any other “business” way. And like you said, it is surprising how often people want something that is going completely against the basic rules of economy. I guess after a certain level you won’t come to sites where everyone gets a chance, you just don’t have enough time or margin to do so, you rather get a professional company or designer for this. I mean I can hardly see Pepsi or Coke looking for their new design on 99design.com…
Anyway what I did experience so far is that the designs are rated pretty controversially, like Anonymous said, “this is the best design so far” and the guy gets 3/5 while there are other with 4/5 or 5/5…. I did enter a few of my logos, got eliminated (what a surprise) but after a while you seem to run out of ideas just posting and posting, and if you have a lot of entries, most of the time the vendor won’t take time to comment or rate them all, so adding this to the previous advices I would advise everyone to try to find the jobs with lesser entries, even if you’re the best designer in the world, your work just might get lost in the masses…
Using a middle man to ensure payment would be fine, but if you look at it from the vendor’s point of view, what can assure you that you have a winner? You cannot make someone pay for something he might not even like in the end. He doesn’t know what he’s buying, and if you give him the chance to get his money back if there is no winner, you are at point zero again.
So yeah, good for practice, especially for novice people like me, cause honestly, who would steal your work? But from a certain level you should really consider if the loss is worth the possible gain (stolen designs….)
November 5th, 2008 at 11:31 am
In response to Dante: The client is taking a gamble in paying up front, but the designers are taking a gamble on never getting paid and putting in a lot of work (that can be stolen and is being stolen).
If the client hired through regular channels the fees they’re offering are usually what the deposit would be ($150 - $400 for a logo; $150 - $500 for a book cover).
In the real-world market, these items are priced much higher for a finished and approved product.
I noticed one talented designer had submitted 275 designs and won 30 contests.
November 6th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Agreed, but you cannot forget the risk factor here, for both sides so it’s understandable that you have a lower price. And I don’t know how it works, but they could somehow demand a deposit from the contest holder, like 10%-20% of the actual prize, that would motivate both, the holder to get involved and comment since he does have some cash in it already, and the designers, cause they will at least get something, won’t win “empty handed”
November 7th, 2008 at 7:16 am
One thing as a reminder Dante or in case you did not know…a client can not go set up a contest for free. They have to pay something like $30-$35 to be able to open a contest…so they are putting up some funds to start the contest…though it is pocket change compared to what it would cost to pay the actual job…
That is why I don’t understand why people would pay $30 to steal ideas…there are plenty of ideas on the net already at multiple sites that they could steal for free.
But I am sure it happens. They are just stupid. Personally, I think they should have to front the whole amount they would reward. Simply because 99 designs has many many users and they will get many submissions. They are not risking much…not anymore then they would paying half or all upfront to some personal designer who probably charges more and have the possibility they will not get something they like the first few designs…which is usually the case since it’s a trial and error career.
(get an idea of what the client wants…design something, its not what they want, redo it…looking better but still not there…design it again…wash and repeat until the client is happy…it is hard to get something they want…especially when most of them are not entirely sure what they want.)
November 14th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
I didn’t know that Rebel, but like you said, seems like peanuts compared to what it would cost. What could be somewhat of a solution is to really pay the money in advance, and after the contest have the option to relunch the contest if truly none of the submitted seem to fit. That would solve both problems I think.
December 6th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
nice one here..
I am about 50/50 when we talk about design contests
.. some problems always remain ….
first about the entries being withdrawn after suspicious comment is left,the idea-I dont want my design to be stolen….hmm too late.The entry has already been downloaded.I even think its a better idea to leave the design there for it could be useful in case they really decide to steal your design. Some of them would eliminate the good designs with the purpose of the designer feeling insulted and therefore deciding to withdraw the entry-that way there is no more evidence for where the design is stolen from.
ReBel you dont understand why people would pay $30 to steal ideas when there is plenty of ideas on the web…I think its because they could get concrete(not common) ideas closer to what they are looking for, cause you dont just search through templates to incorporate a feeling of trust into certain letters or to make taxes look fun and relaxed,I mean we cant really compare templates to sth that has appeared as a result of a project brief.Unique concepts(with specified directions) and even one of a kind final products is what they get for ….how much -40$.damn thats cheap.I am sure that not only smart*ss small business owners use 99 to steal but
art directors,agencies and designers.And if u tell me i am paranoid I’ll tell you that people are pretty brave when it comes to web communication and our society does not seem to show lack of predatory capitalism..so when a person is given the oppurtunity to create 10000 Identities a day without revealing his only real one.!Its not comparable to face to face contact and real-life-know-who.
There was a case where the winning designer has commented his own work speaking from the position of the contest holder,the guy just forgot to switch the accounts.(if u dont believe me i’ll find the link to the contest and post it)
Another bad example is a contest I’ve recently entered…as in most spec cases
it was the winners first contest and there were at least 20 designs way better than the chosen.The second contest of the same contest holder is won by the same designer.the winner of course does not enter other contests,he is so good that he enters 2 contests wins both and decides that contests are boring and never enters again…In such cases prepaid and guaranteed contests dont make a difference..
to add sth good to the portfolio is not bad at all but when you#ve spent some hours actually competing with other designers and finally realise that a competition never existed and you’ve just been exploited..not my favorite feeling
The positive about it all is that when designers compete..they dont try to create a very good design but the best one and thats definitely a plus for both sides.
I
December 11th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
I’ve posted about this site before and over time my opinion of it has deteriorated. If you want to see why it’s a bad idea not to have any sort of relationship with a professional designer, pop over there right now and look at the contest for a self-help dating book for guys. Look at the 4 out of 5 stars (there are currently 3 designers with that ranking) Is that a joke? It’s like a study in what not to do in book cover design. Bevels? And the fonts? OMG. Do these people not read? Why can’t they see that book covers don’t look like that? Maybe he wants to make sure the public knows the book is self-published by a complete amateur.
January 1st, 2009 at 6:35 am
rock on rebel
February 5th, 2009 at 2:37 am
Some observations regarding 99designs.
The few top designers on the site are technically very very good. I.e. I would estimate less than 5% of the ‘pro designers could match the execution of a concept as they do. ( I know some experienced art directors and mid to senior graphic designers who are very average.)
99designs frustrates me in that upon some simple calculations the revenue for this startup is now monstrous. Why didn’t I think of this first! Damn internet startups.
There is obviously more market space for graphic design work that has limited communication between client and designer.
I am a 99designs designer - and generally win 10 percent of my entries. Income wise the money is bad in relation to living cost. A person in eastern europe can spend the same hours and produce the similar quality design but have twice the income of australian resident- this really puts western designers at a disadvantange. Damn globalisation.
Some contest reveal that a clients taste is sometimes just downright bad. Comic Sans, green to red gradients anyone. It’s a no win situation for good designer. But these people exist -they are fellow human beings - they are paying clients.
99designs is as such one the lemons in this unregulated industry- i agree. It isn’t about to be regulated so 99designs is going to be sticking around. As much as it is suggested by the established designers to boycot these spec work sites this wil not happen. It’s great suggesting this and hoping everyone actually boycotts - as this raises the prices for spec work - however there are going to be designers who benefit from this behaviour from fellow designers. Like game theory - only if both prisoners refuse to divulge information about their crime do both benefit by obtaining a minimal sentence. However empirical evidence tells us one one wil fold in the promise of a lesser sentence - that is a designer being payed.
I am also a client on 99designs. Obviously it’s fantastic. There was no need to pay the designer. but i did.
Globalisation in combination with current econimic climate is really screwing the western graphic design industry. I would love to see a global market research on this industry. Anyone..?
my 2 cents..
March 3rd, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Just read some other comments on your blog, and I agree with the general impression, your doing a great job!Keep it up!
March 4th, 2009 at 1:50 am
I like these sites, even though is there is bottom feeders most good clients know they get what they pay for. I don’t think I have ever chose even close to the lowest price on these sites when I’m looking for help. It’s like getting hosting oviously the cheaper the price the more accounts they put on a server and the worse your website will load.
March 6th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
Your writing style is quite a usefull role model for me - I have recently started my own blog and I am finding it hard to write articles!
April 9th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Is there a way to become a content writer for the site?
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:32 pm
I was wondering if you could set up some sort of system so when your publish a new article, i get emailed to alert me? Or something like that.
June 17th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Very good place
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July 10th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Just wanted to tell you all know how much I appreciate your postings guys.
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